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 Brake fade? 
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Post Brake fade?
Anyone found a way to reduce brake fade on the Brembo setup from an '06 999R? Iron rotors? different fluid? no DOT 5 thanx! Mine tend to get a bit mushy when I am pushing it hard.

TIA.... Bruce

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Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:53 pm
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bleed the brakes more often. That always firms it up for me.

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Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:09 pm
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Check for air in the lines. There maybe a bubble. Beyond that, you should have an amazing brake setup that doesn't provide much fade.


Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:13 am
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Wish it were that simple.....
I wanna try to say this without sounding like a jerk but I have been building, riding and crashing bikes since 1970. I am now 53 years old and have seen and done and broken most everything. Some of us old farts know the diff. between air in the lines and just plain brake fade from heat,(Palomar is really hard on a bike's systems). The calipers are Brembo cast 2 piece radial mount 4 pads with stock rotors that were offset to catch more cooling air than the earlier bikes (no anti-chatter plates installed to block airflow). T'aint no air in the system but lever travel gets a bit too long after using them hard, lever travel is fine when cool tho. Prob. just try some new whiz-bang brake fluid first and then out comes the checkbook for some Berringer , Brembo mono's or maybe even AP. This bike should have come with better brakes tho... something along the lines of the xx98 set-up. Prolly some iron rotors too.....

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'06 999R, '02 R1, '85 Suz. W.W. Gamma 500 (sold), '85 V65 Sabre. Kawa-Ferguson fake Harley, 1969 CB 750 turbo dragbike (the Honda from Hell.)


Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:01 pm
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Nice guy from Moto Wheels said new fluid (blue fluid apparently), Ferodo platinum pads and new lines (although I have no reason to question the stock ones). Then if that does not do it.... time to go see the family bank account manager! I think it can be done without spending $6 large (I hope). Also up in Rancho Bernardo is a guy who precuts 3M clear paint protection film. Tankslapper.biz I think, great stuff to keep rocks from sandblasting everything. I have seen it installed and it almost can't be seen.
I'm not sure if I am allowed to mention business names so moderators check this for me.

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'06 999R, '02 R1, '85 Suz. W.W. Gamma 500 (sold), '85 V65 Sabre. Kawa-Ferguson fake Harley, 1969 CB 750 turbo dragbike (the Honda from Hell.)


Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:49 pm
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you can always try replacing the brake master. i swapped out the stock stuff for brembo radials, but still have the stock calipers... I've known some of the top racers at WSMC to have the stock set up on their 999R's and 749R's that had no complaints with the stock stuff, maybe just pad changes.
Tankslapper stuff is great, I had it on my monster, and now on my sport1000. It's a little tricky to apply, but patience is a virtue.

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Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:52 am
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BruceStewart wrote:
Wish it were that simple.....
I wanna try to say this without sounding like a jerk but I have been building, riding and crashing bikes since 1970. I am now 53 years old and have seen and done and broken most everything. Some of us old farts know the diff. between air in the lines and just plain brake fade from heat,(Palomar is really hard on a bike's systems). The calipers are Brembo cast 2 piece radial mount 4 pads with stock rotors that were offset to catch more cooling air than the earlier bikes (no anti-chatter plates installed to block airflow). T'aint no air in the system but lever travel gets a bit too long after using them hard, lever travel is fine when cool tho. Prob. just try some new whiz-bang brake fluid first and then out comes the checkbook for some Berringer , Brembo mono's or maybe even AP. This bike should have come with better brakes tho... something along the lines of the xx98 set-up. Prolly some iron rotors too.....



Anytime I hear of someone having and issue I start off with the easy answer and work from there. I always find it interesting when I hear that someone wants to ride their bike that hard on regular streets instead of saving it for the track. I can't count how many people that I have known in the riding community that have died in the canyons because they feel they are racing for a trophy from Cafe to Restaurant.


I thought your bike came with the monoblock calipers. I have personally ridden the 1098 model with the monoblock setup and did not find brake fade to be an issue. Granted, I am a "Young Pup" but perhaps switching to that setup with the more advanced Master as Jay suggests will work. It just seems like a big waste of money when all you are doing is riding Palomar Mountain. Unless of course you also ride all of the local tracks and Palomar is just a playground between events.


Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:19 am
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I don't think you are a "young pup" as you say...30 years walking the surface of the planet has to teach you some lessons. Your position on fast street riding is also valid, no question there,but, a little application of good judgement and some experience can save your tuckus for another day. Took a quick look at your home page with all the great riding pictures you have posted there, but I have to admit that "people who live in glass houses....etc". Not a shot but a friendly poke at ya! I am currently on a special assignment which requires me to work or be available 24/7 but come Sept. I'd love to join you at a track of your choice, my '02 R1 would be ideal as a track bike.
The calipers that came on the R are "older tech" than the xx98 but should be fine with some minor mods. Lastly... I am incredibly picky about how my bikes handle, don't really care much about fashion or ultimate H.P. numbers which might explain some of my prior posts. Look for me at the top of Palo if you get there from time to time, I'm the guy with the walking cane and bright red noisy Italian contraption! Oh yeah...lastly I could give a rat's butt how fast I am, I ride just to please myself.

B.

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Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:53 am
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If I recall correctly, the 999r calipers were radial mount. And the Masters are radial plunger. Both lend to better feel, but won't really make the brake stronger.
I would look at rotor/pad combos. The calipers are definitely strong enough for all but the most ridiculous of conditions (T1 at willow being a good test after hitting the t9 setup over and over). I had braketech cast iron f.f. rotors and carbone lorraine pads and they worked great.

Of course I prefer to think of my riding effort to work toward smooth and steady. Seems to work better than riding over the top and having my tires get squirmy or my brakes get fade from the heat. As a result I don't really frustrate my brakes or tires too much when I am getting after it. More than one way to skin a cat, but I may look toward technique as well - no offence intended.

Again, many have used the brakes you are talking about with no problems.
I think a good person to ask would be J. Toye at Lee's Cycle. He is about the fastest rider around here and he wrenches his own bikes.
For me, that is pretty good first hand info.
Brakes are pretty simple, there are only so many things you can do.
Get rid of fade by making sure your rotors and pads are a good match; both for each-other, and for your riding conditions.
Second, replace the fluid. Old fluid can get contaminated with compressible fluids or air. That is where you will get the mush from.
Last, Replace your brake lines. I bet they are fine, but if you are really all that worried about it, you may as well.

Something that really makes no sense except to an engineer and gets missed often on these brakes is the bleeder valve inside the master reservoir. It is a screw that you loosen after pumping and holding the lever just like you would do on the banjo down on the caliper. If you don't use this to bleed your brakes you will be all day trying to get them to firm up using just the banjo on the caliper - Just ask Silberty about it ...
Be careful of spatter getting on your stuff tho. Cover the immediate area with a towel just in case.
If all this doesn't work go see a shrink, or your agent. Because you are fast enough that you should be getting paid for it.

Best of luck.
This, brought to you by rainy days on days off ...

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Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:23 am
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BruceStewart wrote:
I don't think you are a "young pup" as you say...30 years walking the surface of the planet has to teach you some lessons. Your position on fast street riding is also valid, no question there,but, a little application of good judgement and some experience can save your tuckus for another day. Took a quick look at your home page with all the great riding pictures you have posted there, but I have to admit that "people who live in glass houses....etc". Not a shot but a friendly poke at ya! I am currently on a special assignment which requires me to work or be available 24/7 but come Sept. I'd love to join you at a track of your choice, my '02 R1 would be ideal as a track bike.
The calipers that came on the R are "older tech" than the xx98 but should be fine with some minor mods. Lastly... I am incredibly picky about how my bikes handle, don't really care much about fashion or ultimate H.P. numbers which might explain some of my prior posts. Look for me at the top of Palo if you get there from time to time, I'm the guy with the walking cane and bright red noisy Italian contraption! Oh yeah...lastly I could give a rat's butt how fast I am, I ride just to please myself.

B.



lol, yeah most the street photos where from before my track time. As for the palomar adventures, I am sure you are much faster than I am on that mountain. I never got comfortable with the blind 180 decreasing turns as I have come around a few of them and had either an unskilled rider or a car in my lane there to greet me. The only places I ever cut loose are typically turns that I can see up the road and know there is no oncoming traffic.

I would love to do some practice work with you at the track. I am out of funds for the moment and waiting for a bid to come through with my company. Once I am back in action financially, though, I am heading straight back to Willow to go racing. They have practice sessions on the Saturday before the race, so we could always hangout on that day. Sunday's are off limits as I will be competing in the Heavyweight Novice class.


Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:20 am
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Seems strange to me Gentlemen.... All I asked about was brake fade on a Ducati 999R. Somehow it got turned into whether my riding technique is "over my head" , "not smooth", "too fast for public roads", the heartbreak of "frustrated tires and brake pads" and the repeated endlessly " air in the lines". I'd love to hang around and analyse me somemore but I gotta get out there and be irresponsible, tough work but someone's gotta do it.

Happy trails....

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Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:28 pm
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Oh relax. It's just conversation. One thing turns to another. That's how talking works! lol


Change the pads first. If that doesn't fix it go for different lines or go bikg and change the Master. Either way, you will find a solution eventually. Good luck!


Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:53 pm
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i thought i had brake fade this past weekend when a corvette was trying to throttle passed me and I had to make it over to the gas station/meetup. Then I noticed it was the stupid throttle rocker impeding my lever from being squeezed.... i thought i was in trouble! :grin:


(yes, i had a throttle rocker on there from a ride to montery)

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Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:17 am
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BruceStewart wrote:
Seems strange to me Gentlemen.... All I asked about was brake fade on a Ducati 999R. Somehow it got turned into whether my riding technique is "over my head" , "not smooth", "too fast for public roads", the heartbreak of "frustrated tires and brake pads" and the repeated endlessly " air in the lines". I'd love to hang around and analyse me somemore but I gotta get out there and be irresponsible, tough work but someone's gotta do it.

Happy trails....


The point being, that those brakes get ridden pretty hard, by all kinds of riders and by most accounts they seem to do fine.
The metaphor of "frustrated tires and pads" had to do with heating up beyond optimal working conditions. This can be mitigated by riding style. Many have to face this about their riding technique. Some ride a little more abruptly than the tires or brakes will put up with.
Addressing your technique is one way to get around this problem.
Doesn't mean you are slow. Sorry if I dinged your ego-helmet.
We were offering you alternatives, and I personally offered you every last bolt-on option you can do to the brakes to make them better.
If that is not good enough, then you can go to some big brain and have them resize your pistons, but that is getting pretty ridiculous at that point.

Good luck ... :beye:

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Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:18 am
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